Retirement You TV: Episode 42

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Video Transcript

Cynthia de Fazio 00:20

And welcome to Retirement You TV. My name is Cynthia De Fazio. I’m joined today by Brian Quaranta. He is president and founder of Secure Money Advisors, as well as Neil Mager senior investment advisor. Brian, how are you? Great.


Brian Quaranta 00:33

How are you doing? Cynthia? Always good to see it.


Cynthia de Fazio 00:35

Fantastic. Always a pleasure to see you as well. Neil, how are you?


Neil Mager 00:39

I’m doing great today. How are you?


Cynthia de Fazio 00:40

I am fantastic. I’m so excited when I have you both in the studio, because obviously, you’re so busy. And yet you take the time to come in each week and do the shows. The viewers have been incredibly responsive, and they’ve been sending questions and if you will, and so it’s just a pleasure to see both of you, Neil, what has life been like in the office?


Neil Mager 00:58

Life’s been busy. I mean, life’s been busy, you can tell the, you know, the conference rooms are humming when, you know, the office staffs trying to figure out who goes where, and things like that. So, it’s a good busy, though, it’s a good busy, it’s been very steady. You know, the show’s obviously, you know, producing a lot of people to come in and are intrigued by, you know, some of the things that they hear. That’s why you probably have so many questions on your list there. I do that, but I do know, people are really just, they have specific questions that they don’t have the answers to. It’s amazing.


Brian Quaranta 01:28

Yeah, it’s amazing how many people are hungry for really good advice, that they’re just not getting? I’ve actually, I think we’re both shocked with how many people have contacted us in regards to what we’re doing. And how little advice is being given out there. Sure. And even if people haven’t advisors, it seems like there’s no, there’s no process to make sure that planning is moving forward, every year with reviews and things along those lines. So, it’s interesting, I really, I was surprised with what with the response from everything that we’ve done,


Neil Mager 02:03

or I think what we hear a lot about in the reviews, it’s just based on moving from point A to point B, yeah, and then a lot of talk and you know, about the vacations they took or the, you know, not real substance to those meetings. So, they’re looking for a little bit more, and they hear the show, and they hear about the things that we’re talking about and say, Wait a minute, I don’t have any of that.


Brian Quaranta 02:26

I’m not doing tax planning,


Neil Mager 02:27

all we do is go from point A to point B


Brian Quaranta 02:29

Yeah, you know, what we’re just they’ll say, Look, we just talked about returns, and that’s about it. You know, they’re not talking about income strategies, investment strategies, tax strategies, health care strategies, Legacy planning strategies. And those are really the fundamentals behind retirement plan. And if you’re not focused on those five key areas, I don’t know, I don’t know what you really have, quite frankly. So, but, but we feel very blessed. And we’re very grateful. Because both of us were we wake up with the passion to really provide really good advice, clear, concise advice so that people can make good, informed decisions. People are smart, they just need to have clear information that they understand to be able to make those decisions.


Cynthia de Fazio 03:09

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And I love the fact as well, that we’re talking about the planning for the distribution phase of leisure, because so often people in the viewing audience may have been working with someone who specialized more in the accumulation years. But you both have a passion for helping people understand what to do when they get to the other side of the mountain, if you will.


Brian Quaranta 03:27

Yeah, we always talk about Everest, right? You know, that you would think that most people die on the way up to Everest, but they actually the most of them die on the way down. Yeah. And this is we kind of analogize this to the accumulation phase and the distribution phase, you know, you need a guide to get yourself down or get yourself through the distribution phase. And a lot of the same strategies and techniques used during the accumulation phase, are just not going to get you through the distribution phase. It’s just completely different techniques, strategies and different potholes, if you will, in the road that you have to be aware of, so that you can avoid them. Sure. Sure.


Cynthia de Fazio 04:02

That makes perfect sense. Well, gentlemen, I have a plethora of viewer questions today. Are You Ready? Ready? Ready. Yeah, absolutely. Neil, I’m gonna start with you. If you don’t mind. This is a great question. What is the five-year waiting rule for Roth IRAs? This caller is from Mountain Lebanon.


Neil Mager 04:19

Yeah, so if you do some either conversions to Roth IRAs, or you do, you know, you contribute to a Roth IRA, there is a five-year waiting period that you cannot access your money without penalty. So, you want to be very clear on that. So, let’s just say that you’re maybe 65 years old, and you want to do some Roth conversions. You have to make sure that any money that you’re moving over to convert, you’re not going to have access to for that five-year waiting period. So, it’s some of those loopholes that you want to make sure that you’re very knowledgeable about before you dive in and make those same types of changes. So that’s a good very good question.


Brian Quaranta 04:58

You know, and I will say You know, when we do Roth conversions, this is why tax planning is so important. People don’t realize that good tax planning takes time. And it’s because of these little gotchas along the way, right? So, if you’re going, Oh, wow, I’m 70 years old, I want to turn my, you know, my taxable money, that’s tax free money, and then you’re gonna need your money sooner, yeah, it’s probably not going to work, you know. But if you’re younger, you know, and when I say young, I mean, 55, 60, 65 can even work depending on how long you’re going to continue to work for. But you’ve got to understand these guidelines in order to have good tax planning.


Cynthia de Fazio 05:34

Okay. All right. Thank you both so much, Brian, this is a great question as well, this is a caller from South Hills, I was advised to roll my 401 K plan from a previous employer into a traditional IRA, which I did, I haven’t made any contributions to it since rolling it over and it’s grown very little. I have a 401 K with my new employer, should I roll my traditional IRA into my new 401k account?


Brian Quaranta 05:59

It’s a good question. I mean, you know, you wouldn’t really be able to answer that question. Without proper portfolio analysis. You know, the 401k could look better than the traditional IRA. But that’s because, you know, you’re, you’re, you’re, you’re making contributions. So, you might go, wow, it’s going up a lot more, but you’re not, you know, taking into account that there’s this contributions going into it. So, look, the idea of having a self-directed IRA is the fact that you’ve got access to so many more options, versus the 401k, where you might only have access to 25, or 30, different options. So, there’s a real benefit with having both. It’s just that if you’re not getting the return over here, then you should have a portfolio analysis done. And folks, that’s what we do at secure money advisors, you can come in, get a portfolio analysis done, and we can walk you through whether or not you’re actually getting the return for the risk that you’re taking. If you’re underperforming. Those are the approaches that we take with our clients, and then also a lot more in a lot of the different areas that we talked about on the show.


Cynthia de Fazio 06:58

All right, Brian, thank you so much, Neil, this is a great question as well. This is a caller from Monroeville, they would like to know, can I contribute to a Roth IRA and still participate in my employer sponsored retirement plan?


Neil Mager 07:11

Yes, and no, you can, as long as you don’t meet certain income thresholds. So, you want to make sure that you stay under those income thresholds. Otherwise, you know, you won’t be eligible. But that’s always a great option to not only contribute to the 401k, but a lot of people are looking for additional savings vehicles. So, the Roth IRA can be a great place. But you just want to make sure all those little gotchas, that check before you do anything,


Brian Quaranta 07:38

Because if you’re making contributions, I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but if you’re making contributions to a retirement plan that you’re not qualified to make, because maybe you have too much income, there’s penalties for doing that, right. I think it’s like a 6% penalty per year or something along those lines for every year that that money sat in there, and you got to get it out. So, there’s just a lot, a lot of gotchas in those.


Neil Mager 07:58

Now, there are some strategies available that probably a lot of people don’t know about, that if you exceed those income thresholds, we can still do a backdoor Roth. But that’s another strategy and technique that we’d have to talk more on another show.


Brian Quaranta 08:16

But yeah, backdoor conversions are great. As a matter of fact, you know, if you are over those, it’s kind of the creative way of getting yourself into a Roth IRA. It’s the loophole and people just have to know how to do it.


Cynthia de Fazio 08:31

Okay. Yeah. Well, Brian, I know that you and Neil have a very special offer that you would like to present to the viewers at home. Let’s talk a little bit about what that is, and then open the phone line.


Brian Quaranta 08:41

Well, one of the questions Neil and I get all the time is, are we on the right track? I mean, how many times do you hear that at the office, every person that comes every person that comes? You know, what’s the most important thing you want to try to get out of the meeting, we want to know if we’re on the right track. And that’s why we developed our right-track retirement system, because that’s exactly what we’re going to help you do. We’re going to walk you through a complimentary portfolio analysis, which is going to help determine whether or not you’re on the right track. We talked about it on the TV show, we talked about it on our radio show, we talked about our educational events. Being on the right track means that you’re focused on five key areas income, taxes, investments, health care and legacy planning. If you know the best practices of all those five key areas, you’re going to have a really good retirement that you feel secure and confident about. So, what we’re going to be offering here for the next 10 callers is a complimentary portfolio review at no cost to you. You got to call 1-888-382-1298 This is something you don’t want to kick the can down the road with take care of it. Now a lot of people think that when they have time, we don’t time is getting smaller and smaller and smaller, don’t procrastinate on this 1-888-382-1298 For your complimentary portfolio analysis.


Cynthia de Fazio 09:51

Brian, thank you so much, Neil. Thank you so much to the viewers at home. The phone number to call is on your screen. That number is 888-382-1298 We know you have a lot of questions about how to retire with confidence how to retire comfortably. Brian and Neill offering you the opportunity to come in for the complimentary portfolio review. Again, pick up the phone and call 888-382-1298. As soon as we come back, I have more viewer questions. One of those could be yours. Stay tuned.


Break 10:19

How confident are you in your current financial plan? Do you know with certainty how the recent market volatility will affect your future hopes and dreams? How much are you paying in taxes? And how much are you losing to unnecessary high fees? You didn’t work to save this money so that you could spend your time worried in retirement. Now is the time to take charge of your finances so you can feel confident about your future call in during the next 30 minutes of today’s show only to set up an absolutely complimentary no obligation, full blown financial review that will result in your own customized written plan. This is a $999 value that we’re giving away complimentary to the first 10 people who respond. We’ll start with a full-blown analysis of what you already have, by running a report to untangle how much you are currently paying in fees, how you’re allocated for risk, and what it’s costing to work with your current advisor. Next, we’ll identify your goals. Where do you see yourself in the next five years? Where do you want to go? And who do you hope to go there with is your current financial plan set up to get you there without mishap? Let’s design a roadmap to create a financial plan you can follow with confidence, get the piece that so many people are missing from their retirement. Find out how having a written plan can make a difference to your retirement dreams. Call now to schedule your complimentary no obligation full blown financial review today.


Cynthia de Fazio 11:54

And welcome back to Retirement You TV. My name is Cynthia De Fazio. I’m joined today by Brian Quaranta. He is president and founder of secure money advisors as well as Neil Mager, senior investment advisor, gentlemen, a great show that we’re having today. And obviously the questions are so diversified. They’re coming from all different directions. I’d love to keep going if that’s okay, let’s do it. All right, this is a great question. And Brian, I’m gonna guide this one to you, if you don’t mind. My wife and I are in our 70s (as a caller from Pittsburgh, by the way, I’m sorry,) my wife and I are in our 70s. And I still work because I want to, my wife is retired, we collect social security and we have IRAs, we want to put 200,000 in a no risk place that may offer some growth, but it’s still accessible when the day comes that we want it whether it’s for a few months from now or for 10 years from now, where’s the best place for it?


Brian Quaranta 12:44

Under your mattress,


Cynthia de Fazio 12:46

one of the buckets right.


Brian Quaranta 12:50

You know, this is the challenge we’re dealing with today. I mean, if you go back, you know, 30-40 years ago, and you look at what the banks were paying us for CDs or money markets, I mean, CDs back in the day, you could buy a one-year CD at maybe 12 or 15%. Right? Today, what’s the last time- has usually got what’s a one-year or five-year, .5 I think I’ve seen a five-year CD at like 1.9, or something along those lines, probably with CDs, you can’t touch the money. So, if you buy a five-year CD, a lot of times if you need to access that money and you break the CD, they’re going to hit you with a penalty. Other tools that you can look at are possibly fixed annuities. Notice the word that I said FIXED annuities. Fixed annuities are like bank CDs, the only difference is they’re with an insurance company, not the bank, and the insurance company is going to give you a guaranteed rate of return. So, you can get maybe three and a half percent on a fixed account right now and still have access to your money. That’s the nice thing about an annuity versus a CD is an annuity will allow you to take 10% out each year. So, if you had $200,000, you wanted to put into an annuity and get a three-and-a-half percent guarantee where it’s where it’s protected, and you’re getting interest every day, you could actually pull out $20,000 A year with that 10% withdrawal feature. So, but again, everybody’s situation needs to be looked at, you know, as a fiduciary, we have a responsibility to make sure we give good advice. And that’s a little bit of a vague scenario there of their situation. But when it comes to safe money, there’s only so many places we can go. Truly it’s under the mattress, at the bank, or some type of fixed annuity. You know, but a lot of people think bonds are, you know, guaranteed or safe, but they’re not, they have interest rate risk.


Neil Mager 14:35

When you need that money, you could be pulling it out at a loss, right? I mean, that’s the nature of a bond.


Brian Quaranta 14:41

If interest rates go up, yeah, because interest rates go up bond prices go down.


Neil Mager 14:46

Right. And, you know, it’s an interesting question because I had a family dinner last weekend and same question from my brother. He said, You know, I have some money I want some short-term savings. You know, I’m gonna need it as I buy a new Home, I want to make sure it’s available to me, where can I earn some interest on it because the banks was not doing it. And I said, you know, unfortunately, there’s not a lot of great options, you know, for short-term savings right now, because, you know, the banks really don’t want our money right now. You know, sometimes you have to take a little bit of risk, which obviously, you don’t want to do with short-term money in order to get any return. Sure. So unfortunately, that’s really the options available or are limited.


Brian Quaranta 15:27

Or you could do Bitcoin. No, I’m totally kidding. Because everybody asks about Bitcoin. Everybody asked about Bitcoin, you know, and so I say that jokingly, folks. Do not put your saved money into Bitcoin, okay.


Neil Mager 15:42

We always get the trending topics. Be it should I invest in marijuana? Cryptocurrency? Right, it’s whatever’s trending. Yeah, yeah.


Cynthia de Fazio 15:50

You hear a lot? That’s right. All right. Now, this is a great question. This is a caller that actually came in from Mount Lebanon, I transferred money from my 401 K to my Roth 401 K in error. Can I move the funds back without penalty with this? Will this air have to be recorded as income?


Neil Mager 16:11

Wow, interesting. I know, my understanding, there’s no reversing or Roth. Am I correct on that?


Brian Quaranta 16:16

You know what? That’s a great question. I mean, we would have to check on that. I honestly don’t know the answer of that.


Neil Mager 16:21

My understanding, there’s no reversing it. Now, obviously, I’d want to double-check. But yeah, that’s a certain situation that you want to avoid. That’s why it’s so important to work with somebody was doing.


Brian Quaranta 16:31

But why would you want to reverse that? I mean, that’s a good thing. And I mean, unless he was over the threshold to where he could be penalized for it. Having money in a Roth 401 K is a great thing. Well,


Neil Mager 16:42

keep in mind, of course, it’s a great thing. But there’s certain income thresholds that you have to be very cognizant of, when you make those Roth conversions. One, you know, are you going to increase the tax bracket, too, one of the ones that we always have to be very cognizant of, is there’s a certain income threshold that if you go above, you’re going to increase your Medicare for two years. So, we always want to make sure that we’re very understanding of what that number is, because we don’t want to increase the Medicare costs deal.


Cynthia de Fazio 17:08

That’s a great point as well. Neil, thank you so much. This is a great question to Brian, I’m gonna guide this to you. Should people consider using life insurance to build tax free cash value? Yeah,


Brian Quaranta 17:19

we were just talking about this. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of the questions we get is, hey, I’m 62, I had Term Life insurance is getting ready to expire, do I need it anymore? Well, you know, I think people are, you know, they misunderstand the purpose, and the benefits of life insurance, because it can become a great tool in retirement planning itself. You know, there’s lots of different ways to use life insurance. I mean, you can use it to protect your family. And the idea is, when you’re younger, you haven’t accumulated enough money yet, you know, take my brother, for example. You know, he’s a young guy, he’s got three kids, he has a paving company in New Jersey, you know, if something were to happen to him, he’s the primary breadwinner, and he hasn’t lived a long enough life yet to accumulate a pot of money, that if he died, his family will be okay. So, for over a very small amount of money on a monthly basis, he can buy a large pot of money from the insurance company called life insurance. And if he dies, that will pay out to his family. And they could use that to continue their lives, right. But as you get older, a lot of people always want to know, I mean, what should I be doing? Should I continue to keep my life insurance? What does that look like? What people don’t realize is life insurance is one of the best tools to utilize to beat the IRS in taxes, not only because of the tax benefits on the cash value, but also the tax benefits on the death benefit itself. And I know, I know people that I hate life insurance, you know what, get over it. Because it’s one of your best tools that you can utilize, to really do a lot of good for your family and for yourself for just, you know, I mean, it’s life insurance, there’ll be a deal, but you have got to go back to some of these tax laws when they are written. You go back life insurance tax rules, rules were written 50 years ago, 60 years ago. Go look, go look at how many people in Congress utilize life insurance. It is one of the it is one of the number one most used product by the wealthy, to transfer wealth to create tax free money. It’s a really great product, but you got to know what you’re doing. You because it is they can be complicated products. There’s a lot of moving parts in them.


Cynthia de Fazio 19:22

Okay. All right. Excellent. Thank you so much. Yeah. Well, Brian, I know that you and Neil have a very special offer that you want to present to the viewers at home. Let’s talk about what that is and then reopen the phone lines. Yeah, folks,


Brian Quaranta 19:32

most people want to know when they come in whether or not they’re on the right track. If you’ve ever wondered yourself, you know, you’re getting maybe getting ready to retire, you’re going to need to generate income. You’re not sure how to do that. Maybe you’re not retired with a pension, you retire with a 401 K plan. And you know, how need to know how to withdraw money from there and do it in a way so you don’t run out? Or maybe you’re at a point like a lot of our clients where they say look, we’re at a point where we can’t take another big market loss because we just don’t have the time to recover. Are right tract retirement system. Our complimentary portfolio analysis that we will do for you is going to help you go through five key areas of planning to look at income, taxes, investments, health care and legacy planning. But you’ve got to do your part. You’ve got to pick up the phone call 1-888-382-1298 to get your complimentary portfolio review.


Cynthia de Fazio 20:21

Brian, thank you so much, Neil. Thank you so much to the viewers at home. The phone number to call is on your screen. That number is 888-382-1298. We know you have a lot of questions about how to plan your perfect retirement. Brian and Neil are and offering to answer those questions for you. All you could do is take advantage of the call today. 888-382-1298 We have to take a very short commercial break, but don’t go anywhere. I have more viewer questions and remember, the next one could be yours. Stay tuned.


Break 20:48

As a good saver you’ve been putting away money during your working years. Studies find that the biggest fear of retirees is running out of money. Market volatility isn’t just a downward movement of stock prices. It’s the size and frequency of change. The more dramatic the ups and downs, the higher the volatility. This can put savers who are newly retired or a few years away from being retired at greater risk. Today’s generation of retirees is not receiving traditional pensions as our parents or grandparents did. Instead, we have retirement accounts such as 401, K’s or 403 B’s. These accounts typically expose your money to market risk. The last thing you want right before retirement is to lose a portion of the money you need for income. But how do you turn these accounts into a retirement income? Is it safe to keep all your retirement money sitting in the stock market. The last thing you want is to lose a portion of the money you need for income due to market loss. By working with a financial professional, you can learn how to turn a portion of your savings into an income stream for life and income for the life of your spouse if you’re married. We all have moments in our lives when we wish we had taken action sooner. Don’t let procrastination rain on your retirement parade. Act now before it’s too late. Please call our office to set up your no cost no obligation retirement income review today.


Cynthia de Fazio 22:13

And welcome back to Retirement You TV. My name is Cynthia De Fazio. I’m joined today by Brian Quaranta. He is president and founder of Secure Money Advisors as well as Neil Mager senior investment advisor. Great show that we’re having today. And I love the viewer questions. Neil. I’m gonna guide the next one to you. Is that okay? Yeah, absolutely. This is a great question. It says, Neil, can you help me understand what exactly is rebalancing a portfolio? And is it necessary?


Neil Mager 22:38

Is it necessary? Well, it’s a great question. I mean, you know, the Certified Financial Planning Board has something called the rule of 100. And it’s something that we adhere to pretty much on point that secure money advisors, basically what it means is you take your age, so if you’re 60 years old, 60% of your money should be safer, more conservative 40%, you want for more aggressive, more risk for long-term growth. So, when you’re looking at your portfolio, and as you continue to age and you get closer and closer to retirement, you’re running short on something. And that’s time, because soon you will need your money to generate income most likely for about 90% of people that we see. So, you want to continue to position your money in the right form and manner, that you are getting more and more safe with your investments. So, it’s very, very important to continue to rebalance. Some of the things that we utilize at our office are able to rebalance the portfolio continuously utilizing algorithms and things like that really, really important aspect that we have taken advantage of in our office. But yeah, I would say that you make sure that you continue to rebalance, what I’m seeing a lot come into the office is a people are actually taking more risk, because the bond yields are so low. And that can be really, really dangerous. Slippery slope.


Brian Quaranta 23:54

Yeah, you know, and I just want to, you know, talk a little bit about that rule of 100. I mean, that rule of 100 As a rule of thumb, and basically the way you get to that 6040 split is you take 100 minus your age, right? So, in his case, he was talking about 60, or 100 minus 60 equals 40. And that’s where you kind of come up with that blend of how much money should be protected versus how much money should be at risk. And, you know, in Neil had started to talk about something called algorithms. If you look at the market today, a lot of the market is done with computer trading. This is why we have a lot of volatility and big swings, because you’ve got big hedge funds, spending lots of money on technology of knowing when to get in and out of the market. And they’re cycling in and out constantly. And one of the things that can give you a competitive advantage is the ability to use an algorithm to look for economic trends. So, one of the things that we’ve done rather than Trump trying to constantly figure out what asset classes to own is to use the sophistication of an algorithm. So, think about it. If you’re scrolling through Facebook, right? Facebook is brilliant because it knows based on the pace in which you scroll, what you’re looking at. So, if I’m scrolling through something, I slow down scrolling, it takes a data point, and it knows that you’ve caught it caught your interest, if you stop. Now it knows it really caught your interest. And it takes another data point. So, this is why all of a sudden, if you’re looking at fishing stuff, you get more fishing stuff. If you’re looking at cooking stuff, and you’re getting work cooking stuff. Well, in the world of investments, technology has changed. So, most of the time, people are utilizing technology that is kind of like the old cell phone. Remember, it was like a brick, it was really, really big. And that’s kind of the traditional way of investing money. It’s called asset allocation, you know, you meet with an advisor, they diversify your money into a few different mutual funds. And that’s asset allocation. That’s like the old cell phone today, when we can use algorithms, the algorithms will actually rotate the asset classes based on the data point that it’s collecting money supply, interest rate market volatility, and it’s going to determine what asset classes are best to be owned, during what it perceives to be at what point of the economic cycle. So, what it does is it really allows the client to sit back and know that the work is being done automatically. And what else it can do is it can set up predetermined drawdown. So, if you don’t want to lose a certain amount of money, you know, let’s say you can’t lose beyond a certain amount. The algorithms be good for setting what we call a lot drawing a line in the sand and saying, look, if I don’t want to lose more than 7%, the algorithm could be set up so that the portfolio doesn’t draw down further than that. 7%. So, this is where of the sophistication of technology can really help give you a lot of peace of mind and investing.


Cynthia de Fazio 26:41

Most definitely, most definitely. Well, gentlemen, I can’t believe we have about a minute and 15 seconds left of the show. Any final words of advice you want to give the viewers at home? Neil, anything you want


Neil Mager 26:51

to just say, you know, a plan really starts by looking at the five key areas that we talked about so frequently here today. And then on previous shows, that’s the income planning, the investment planning, the tax planning, the legacy planning and the health care planning. If you don’t feel that you’re getting advice on all five key areas, I’d really pick up the phone and give us a call and we’re offering a complimentary portfolio analysis.


Brian Quaranta 27:14

Yeah, and matter of fact, folks, if you call right now, we’re going to give away the portfolio analysis at no cost to you pick up the phone, it’s 1-888-382-1298. Just like Neil said, we’ll go through the five key areas will truly give you clarity, clarity and peace of mind going into retirement. You’ll learn a lot in that meeting, but you got to do your part 1-888-382-1298 To schedule your complimentary portfolio analysis.


Cynthia de Fazio 27:37

Gentlemen, thank you so much for another amazing show this week to the viewers at home. Most specifically. Thank you for spending time with us and thank you for sending in all of the viewer questions. That number to call once again is 888-382-1298. Be safe, be happy, be blessed. And we’ll see you back here one week from today. Same location.